Thursday, September 16, 2010

Army List Decisions



I would love to sit here and pontificate about how awesome my 40k army lists are, but they're not all that revolutionary. I have no "street cred". I've won a local tournament, but that doesn't give me any authority. I have all sorts of opinions, but you know what they say about those...

What I do know is that unless you are an internet God who can use terms like "pro tip" and "beat face" without skipping a beat (or realizing it makes you sound like a douche), picking an army list can be tough. First, unless you are playing a casual game in your buddy's basement, there may be additional rules levied by the tournament organizer. I, for example, will be playing in a tournament this coming weekend where I have to have at least 40% of my 1850 points in troops. I disagree with this restriction on principal, but it's not my tournament, and I realize that's just the way things are sometimes. You also might be restricted on what models you have. Lord knows this isn't the cheapest hobby on the planet and sometimes real life takes priority over our dolls.

In any event, I have two potential army lists in mind for this Saturday the 25th of September. One list is a slight variation of the 1750 list I used in a recent tournament while the other is a more elite, harder hitting list with a little less flexibility than the first. I thought I would throw these out there and see if the handful of folks who read my drivel have any constructive opinions on the matter. :)

First up, my "Fire & Rain" list. It gives me more guns and mobility and has worked out for me in the three games that I played the 1750 version:

190 Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan
230 Tactical Squad with Multi-Melta, Flamer, Powerfist & Rhino
230 Tactical Squad with Multi-Melta, Flamer, Powerfist & Rhino
280 Tac Squad with Lascannon, Flamer, Powerfist, & Assault Cannon Razorback
115 Dreadnought with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
115 Dreadnought with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
115 Dreadnought with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
140 (2) Land Speeders with Multi-Meltas & Heavy Flamers
70 Land Speeder with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
70 Land Speeder with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
85 Dakka Predator
85 Dakka Predator
125 Vindicator with Siege Shield
1850

The next list makes use of some models that I want to put on the table because they look awesome. My newly acquired Blog Chain Giveaway Ironclad Dreadnought among them. Here is the list I call my "Pyrotechnic All-stars":

190 Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan
230 Tac Squad with Multi-Melta, Flamer, Powerfist & Rhino
230 Tac Squad with Multi-Melta, Flamer, Powerfist & Rhino
280 Tac Squad with Lascannon, Flamer, Powerfist, & Assault Cannon Razorback
200 (5) Assault Terminators w/ Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields
195 Ironclad Dreadnought with Heavy Flamer & Drop Pod
70 Land Speeder with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
70 Land Speeder with Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer
260 Land Raider Crusader with Multi-Melta
125 Vindicator with Siege Shield
1850

Threat Comparison: The first list gives me 13 "vectors" or operational units to work with as well as 18 kill points. The second only has 9 "vectors", but only 14 kill points. I'm not too worried about kill points as I've done so-so in the past when I've outnumbered my opponent in kill points at the beginning of games.

I suppose minor tweaks could be made (lascannon vs. assault cannon razorback) but I'm pretty happy with both lists. I suppose my problem is that I want to play both, but I don't really have time to get in too many practice games. The Fire and Rain list is closest in theme to what Team Snake Eyes will be bringing to Adepticon, so I suppose I should practice with that one. On the other hand, the All-star list just looks "fun". That's why we're doing this right? Gah! I just wish I didn't have to work so I could play more. Damn adulthood and your silly responsibilities. :)

Anywho, let me know what you think.

21 comments:

CounterFett said...

I like the first list a little better, though it is tough to distinguish as they are both variations on a theme really.

Getting that much flame and melta in an army list with Vulkan, however, is scary.

Have you had good luck with your speeders? Mine get squished pretty fast.

chosen1 said...

Thanks for stopping by! Vulkan would be scary if I wasn't a total boob when it came to rolling dice. As it stands, he just makes me suck less. :) As to my speeders...I like them a lot. They do get squished most games, but that's kind of the point. Most of my army has an effective shooting range of 24" unless I'm trying to make use of my melta weaponry. With their extra mobility they can extend my range when necessary and since they are so cheap, I use them to block enemy movement. I'm still working on this technique, but if I push a heavy flamer/multi-melta in your face (with re-rolls) you'll deal with it. When you do, something more important gets to live a little while longer. If you don't, the speeder makes you pay. I have found that they buy me an extra round or two of fire and maneuver against assault heavy armies and allow my shorter range stuff time to advance against superior shooty opponents.

chaplainaerion said...

I'm still voting for the All-stars, mostly because it's really pushing me to get this drop pod finished (or at least field-worthy). Either list works, though, so you are in the enviable position of having no wrong choices.

chosen1 said...

I'm using that same excuse to push me to get these two land speeders field worthy. Sad thing is I've still got one more speeder and two more pods in boxes loooking at me the way only unbuilt models can.

chaplainaerion said...

But they aren't needed for Saturday so they can suck it.

chosen1 said...

Uh, unless I want to play my first list. I only have two painted land speeders at the moment, and I need four for that list. :)

chaplainaerion said...

Exactly. Wait, what are we talking about?

Conanti said...

I am new to 40k and SM's and really like your first list.

Question: for the entry:

280 Tac Squad with Lascannon, Flamer, Powerfist, & Assault Cannon Razorback

Does the Transport Capacity of the Razorback, Six models, allow this? or was there an errata or other special rule?

chaplainaerion said...

Welcome, Conanti, to the game and to our little corner of the asylum. Hope you follow us and become a stalker.

That's a great question and I had to look it up to be honest cause it got me wondering.

The Transport entry under Troops states "May select a Rhino or a Razorback. If the squad numbers ten models, may take a Drop Pod."

In GW speak this translates to mean that the only restriction on transports for troop choices is the unit MUST number 10 in order to select a Drop Pod. I.E. a squad of any legal size (10 or less in this case) may take a Rhino or Razorback as a transport choice.

That being said, the 10 man squad can't fit in the Razorback, but if the unit is split into combat squads one element may ride in the transport and use it as allowed. I believe this is a new aspect of the Fifth Edition rules so it may confuse folks who have played under previous editions where the tank had to fit the squad.

I hope that clarifies (and is correct. If not I'm sure Chosen1 will be sure to provide a more accurate answer.)

Happy gaming!

Conanti said...

aahh yes... where do you use that combat squad not in the razorback? do you combat squad any other tacticals?

thanks!

chaplainaerion said...

You can use the other squad wherever you like. If a unit is split into combat squads it's usually a good idea to split them by purposes. In the squad listed above, for example, we have 3 special weapons at our disposal. The flamer is a close range assault weapon so having it paired up with the Lascannon is a waste. Therefore if we split the squad so that the Power Fist and the flamer are riding in the Razorback driving forward to engage the enemy, while the Lascannon is left behind to provide anti-tank cover fire we have effectively used a single troop choice to fill two battlefield roles. This ability (the use of Combat Squads) is one thing that makes Space Marines a very versatile army that can keep the opponent guessing.

chosen1 said...

Aerion is correct on all counts (just don't tell him I said that "publicly"...) My intent was to provide a 5 man combat squad with a lascannon to provide a small measure of anti-tank firepower. My main goal, however, was to provide my HQ choice a five man "retinue" with a transport. That squad will be armed with the flamer/powerfist.

Conanti said...

wow... that works out perfect then to throw vulkan in the razorback... I am really liking these guys! :)

Genoside07 said...

I am glad I read the blog every once in a while, for some reason I thought the points for the rogue trader was 1750. Looking at Larry's army list I started thinking "why is he making a 1850 pt list?" This would have not helped my win record by showing up 100 pts short.

chosen1 said...

Codenames Genoside! You just blew our cover! :) Aside from our blog being a font of tactical and hobby genius, we do have some more mundane types of useful info on here as well. Post count is significantly down, however, since school has started back up for Aerion and myself.

Conanti said...

Question for you guys... so I am playing in a 2350 tourney with a similar list to the first one but I have to bring a spearhead... I am not sure if I should bring:

Seek and Destroy with
3x3 Bikes w/Melta or Flame

Armoured with
1x LRR and 2 Vindicators

Super Heavy with
Ultra Terminus

thoughts?

chosen1 said...

Well, looking at what the core list can do, attacking armor isn't really a weak point, which would make me leave the melta bikes home. Flamer bikes seem really useful if you're only going after hordes. I'm not a fan of the LR Redeemer (I find the template weapons too limiting) but I really love the work my vindicator has done. I have very little super heavy experience, and no experience with the Ultra Terminus. My vote? Bring the Land Raider & 2 Vindicators as your Spearhead. You'll have the armor 14 transport capability and the extra strength 10 templates never hurt either. :)

Conanti said...

sounds good, a 5+ invul save on the LRC and vindicators seems pretty solid...

thanks!!!

chosen1 said...

No worries. Come on back and let us know how your tournament goes!

Conanti said...

Where is a good forum to discuss Salamander army lists and battle reports? don't want to spam all over your blog :)

thanks,

Josh

chosen1 said...

Bell of Lost Souls - go to the lounge
(www.belloflostsouls.net)

or

Warseer
(www.warseer.com)

would be my two recommendations. Both have very talented posters, as well as some less than enjoyable ones. I actually started on those two sites before I surfed around and found a few blogs that I liked since there was a lower percentage of rude people on the blogs. A really good source for Space Marine information (and slightly less controversial than some of his peers) is "Kirby's" blog 3++ is the new Black / Kirb your enthusiasm (www.kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com)

I hope that helps. If you've got anything you'd like to chat and are worried about spamage, just drop me an email at: cmlamontagne @ yahoo.com

take care!